Love and Life happens. For Adekunle Adeyoola, popularly known as Soul Snatcha of the renowned Gospel group, RooftopMcs and Nikki Laoye, theirs is a story of Love orchestrated by God and exalted by family and friends.
However, Nigerians are curious to know why Nikki Laoye had to settle for Adekunle Adeyoola, who lost his late wife to cancer and why Adekunle Adeyoola popularly known as Soul Snatcha had to settle for Nikki Laoye.
Soul Snatcha is already a father of four, and here, Nikki who is known to be hyper-active shares how she intends to love the kids just like her own and also offers pieces of advice to men and women on how best to raise their step-children.
In this interview with the Media Room Hub Crew, the couple discuss their journey of friendship to love and also puts the record straight on certain misconceptions of the public about their marriage.
Q: You both look really lovely with strong chemistry, tell us, how your journey to marriage started, and where it is right now?
NIKKI: We have been friends for over 20 years now, of course, don’t mind him, he is always trying to yab me that I was this small girl that was chasing them.
SNATCHA: (Cuts in) It’s not yabbing, it’s a statement of fact (laughs)
NIKKI: NIKKI: It is not a fact at all (laughs) . The truth is, everybody knows Rooftop Mcs, the pioneers of the Urban Gospel Music Industry in Nigeria. And of course, he is Soul Snatcha of Rooftop MCs. Also, when I started my career back then, I needed someone to help me out, of course, I was being supported and pushed out there by my cousin, Tunde Laoye with Wahala Media Entertainment but we didn’t know what to do because it was fresh ground for us.
I had just finished university and all of that, and of course, he had been in the industry for years. We had known each other while in school, then he was in a group called G-Force along with Aisha and my best friend, Chioma. So, we just had that circle of friends and that’s how we have known each other for years and of course when I wanted to start my career, I reached out to him to ask for his advice.
And then for one of the singles from my first album, my Angel 4 Life album, I got him and Sokleva (the other member of the Rooftop MCs) to be part of a song called “Taka Sufe”, that also featured my older brother, Rap2Sai.
And I remember that Snatcha came up with the chorus, and at first, I didn’t like the chorus of that song and he was like, don’t worry, you will love it.
We recorded the song in Cobham’s studio, although my younger brother, Xblaze produced it. The video for the song went viral then because it was very unique.
So that’s how we have been friends for so many years.
The funny irony is that down the line, we both got married separately but in the same year, he got married October to his late wife, Jennifer and I got married in December. So, it was funny that we kind of had similar things happen.
We have just been there for each other. I remember when I was going through my separation and divorce, he was a very good friend who was there to encourage me, and of course, while he and his late wife then were going through a lot, when she had cancer, I was also a friend that was there, although we were apart for a long time—he was in the UK, and I was in Nigeria but we tried to keep in touch as much as possible, but still, life just threw us away.
But Now, God just brought us together
Q: Is it true that you were a friend to his late wife?
NKKI: Yes, I actually met his late wife through him. And of course, She was actually an angel. She was actually my first International sale for my haircare brand, FineWoman By Nikki Laoye. She reached out to me to buy my products and also prayed for me. She was just an amazing woman who was supportive of all of his friends. She was just supportive to everyone and always reached out. It broke my heart that shortly before she passed away, she wanted me to come over for dinner but I was in the UK for a short trip, just a week and couldn’t make it.
Q: What was your reaction to people who accused you of having something with her husband all the while before she died. And why did you decide to marry her husband?
NIKKI: The truth is that I know that some people would have thought about it like that but the funny irony of life is, we never liked each other like that at all. As in, our coming together right now, we keep saying that it’s God.
SNATCHA: It’s actually amazes me because then if they put her on a line for me to choose, I won’t pick her
NIKKI: I won’t pick him either. That’s the funny irony of life, we were never each other’s type.
SNATCHA: I never chased her at all. In fact, back then when we see her coming, we will just say this over-excited, over happy girl is coming, let’s run. If you don’t know her personally you will think it’s fake. She was always so happy, and everybody is Nikki’s Bestie. Sometimes you will just ask yourself, how many besties does she really have. Knowing her, getting close to her, and even meeting her mum, I realized that they are both alike cos even the mum is always excited and happy no matter what happens. Even if someone hurts her, she is always happy and still says that’s my bestie.
NIKKI: The truth is that I just have a good heart, it’s a God’s heart. God just made me that way. But the truth is that people don’t know that it is God that brought us together. It was all a mix of coincidence, chance, and life from when he lost his late wife and he had to be with his four amazing children, and I was trapped in the UK because of Covid-19 lockdown, so I decided, okay I’m in the U.K and my friend needs help with the kids, and I am not doing anything much at the moment.
So, I was shuffling between my cousin’s house and his house, just to help take care of the kids. See, during that period I became an “NHS worker” (they both laugh). My cousin will tell me not to go out because there is Covid that they would stop me, I will say No that I am going to help a family, and that is what it was. I will enter the bus, the train two hours away to go and help out with the kids, and the children just fell in love with me and I was just like this big sister that was there to help
SNATCHA: because they are almost of the same height (laughs).
NIKKI: That was it basically, it was in that place of hurt, pain and so much going on and God just saw that these two people will help each other heal.
Q: How did your decision to marry Nikki, your friend come about?
SNATCHA: It wasn’t even on my radar. I wasn’t thinking. Initially, there was a point where the thought came, I just pushed it off because I just said to myself, what do I want to do with this one, she is tiny (they both laugh). If it’s to judge by physical attribute, it would have been a no-no-no, because I like girls that are at least big. I was not really attracted to her physically. I also knew that she was into fair complexioned guys. That’s why our types were completely different.
I rejected the thought because I only knew what I wanted and not what I needed. Later I just realized she was what I needed. I thought I had a spec, a type but God knows me better than myself and knew what was best for me.
NIKKI: The same thing for me. I thought I would settle down with a white guy I was dating at the time. But I believe at the end of the day, when it comes to how God works, he always has a way of making you fall in love with what he wants for you.
When he came up to me, there were other people chasing me. I actually thought my life will revolve around America. I had a job waiting for me in America. I thought I would be moving there, but when God spoke to Snatcha and he started chasing me, I was like ‘No’ we have been besties for too long. We are just friends. I decided to pray about it, and I told God that if this is coming from you, make me fall in love with him because I am not attracted to him like that and He didn’t like me like that either, but we just prayed about it, and God made us fall in love with each other.
Right now, we can’t do without each other, it’s just amazing. I am actually very attracted to him now. He is so cute. Seriously, that was just how we came to be.
Q: He has four children already, and you are yet to have one. Do you both still have plans of having kids together?
NIKKI: Seriously I was afraid, not because I didn’t love him and the children, but the truth is, as you rightly said, it’s a lot of work, I have the idea of being a mum but I haven’t been a mum before even though I love children, everybody knows I love children. I remember when I was praying to God about it all, and God just spoke to me and told me “Take care of my son and his four children for me, don’t worry, I have got you covered” .
I remember I was so worried to even tell my mum especially because my mum had been looking forward to me having children of my own and I was worried about how I will tell her that I am about to get hooked with someone who has four kids already. Surprisingly, my mum was even the one who called me and was like “don’t you and Kunle like each other?” and I was surprised why she said that, and my mum just told me that God has given you those children and those words of hers were very shocking to me because my mum is not like that at all and I started crying.
I knew that she was the voice of God because God knows I listen to my mum. My mum then told me that Nikki, you are now their mum, that God has given me those children to take care of them, that’s how I knew, I can do this. Honestly, it has just been a walk in the park, because he and his late wife had built an amazing foundation. The way they raised the children is amazing. They are the most respectful, helpful, loving and caring children you could ever be around. It’s really been easy because the children are simply amazing.
Q: The connection between you and his children is so strong, tell us, how did you steal their hearts I know it’s not easy. We see the love in the birthday video you posted?
NIKKI: I won’t lie, they stole my heart from the very first day, I remember Snatcha recorded a video of the first day I came to visit, and the three girls were just holding me and pulling me at the same time and just calling me ‘aunty’ ‘aunty’ and the little baby just stole my heart from the first time I saw him. The four of them are amazing children – Seven, Trinitee, Zion, and Rain. Like Snatcha rightly said, I sometimes feel like they are my siblings. I am childlike at heart, so it is easy to relate with them. I just love them; they are just so easy to love.
Q: How old is your eldest child?
SNATCHA: She will be ten by June.
NIKKI: And she is my best friend
Q: So how many do you guys’ plan to have again?
NIKKI: I leave that area to God. Because to be sincere, if God says, that the four are okay, I will be fine. If God says to add one more, it’s still fine.
SNATCHA: We were having this conversation and we have decided to leave everything to God, we are not trying to prevent or facilitate, we just do what we do.
Nikki: You know sometimes, people have actually thought that I can’t have children or something. I remember one time someone came up to me and told me that she has one aunty that is a prophet that can pray for me and I told her, please I don’t have any problem having children. I have never had a miscarriage before, have never had any problem before, nothing at all. It is just a case of not being ready yet to have children back then, and right now, I am in a place where I am so content with God and what we have right now that if we decide to have extra children, that’s fine.
And we decide not to have any more, I’m still okay. These are still four amazing children that God has given me to take care of. They are as good as mine right now. I don’t feel like they are his children or something, I feel like they are mine too.
Q: You must have really been devasted when your wife died, especially when you knew you had four children to take care of. Did you think of finding love again and how were you able to pull through at that period?
SNATCHA: I didn’t think of finding love again, my priority was my children, and I think because for seven and half of the eight years we were together, I mostly took care of her and the children, and I felt God was preparing me already. I mean if I was one of those guys that are not involved in the rearing and upbringing of the children, it would have been a different situation entirely. I have always been involved in raising the children, so I knew what to expect. I was taught never to say this is a man’s job or a woman’s job. The only time I feel I am helping my wife is when I am helping her hold her bag.
If I wash the plate, I am not helping her, it’s what the both of us should do. I am not even helping her to sweep the house, it is our house. I feel marriage is a partnership where we should help each other, so when my late wife couldn’t do anything, I was doing everything already. So immediately she died, I cried and after that I spoke to the children and told them immediately so we could grieve together.
Q: Did she die in the hospital or at home?
SNATCHA: At home. I can remember I was trying to get the children ready for school. There were like three ambulances – the Helicopter ambulance, the fire service were there because they were trying to airlift her to the hospital from the roof because they could not take her downstairs. They were using the machines on her, trying to revive her but she didn’t make it.
So I had to talk to the kids when this happened and kept them in their room. I knew that people will come in, and I didn’t want them to see people crying and mourning, because I had told them that it was a thing of victory, mummy is in heaven, she’s an an angel now and will watch over you.
I had to take them to a friend’s house for a week because they were still in school and it was during the Christmas period, and they had to do Christmas plays and carols, so everything had to go on as normal and every Friday we still had to do our special family movie night.
Q: When you told them that their mum has passed, what was their reaction?
SNATCHA: Seven, who is the firstborn, cried, she shed tears, but I was able to tell them that God loves her more and explained to them the dynamics of heaven, hell, and earth but they didn’t get it initially. It took a while. I had nights where they would wake up and say ‘I wish mummy was here’ and sometimes they would be crying in school, and I would have to go get them in school. It was a lot of work, a lot of work for just one person.
Q: How were you able to move on after your first marriage crashed?
NIKKI: I was 38 years when I got separated. The truth is that my ex is a good person, but the truth is that two can’t walk together except they agree, even the bible says so and the truth is that we tried to make it work, we thought we had the same purpose, and ideologies but it just didn’t connect down the line, but we tried to make it work. I was the one that finally had to sit him and told him ‘Dude you know what, if we continue like this, one day we will fight each other, we will scatter the whole house, and it is better we go our separate ways. I love him for one thing, he didn’t fight me, he was so calm, we actually separated amicably and had a very smooth divorce and people were surprised because they didn’t even hear any noise whatsoever. It only leaked on the blogs because they noticed that we were not going to the same places together anymore. He was on my management team, helping me with my career and all, it is just that we didn’t connect on some other things that we needed to deal with, and we just decided to go our separate ways. But at the end of it, it feels like a death, you’re losing someone, it is not a good place to be—after being with someone for a long while and all of a sudden, you are no longer with the person, and you really wanted it to work out, but it didn’t—and you are like where do I move from here, I am almost turning 40. I just said to myself that it was not the right time to be going through a separation or a divorce. At that point, I stayed back from relationships and every other thing, I just wanted to be alone and be loved by God. At a point in time, I was talking with my Pastor Paul Adefarasin and he was asking ‘Nikki how far’ and he was just trying to cheer me up and I was like ‘Papa I am not sure I am going to get married again’ and he spoke to me saying he knows that I was not born to be single, so those things he said to me kind of woke something in me, and I was ready to try again—I decided to start dating again, but I kept my dating arena outside Nigeria because already, the news of my divorce was all over the Internet. If you just google my name, it’s the divorce story that pops up so I just started dating quietly and see how it works. It just didn’t work out, I thought my life will revolve around America, but it just didn’t work. And I just asked “God where do you want me to serve next” because I know that marriage is more than love and friendship, and it is also a place of service because we are all here on earth to serve. With marriage, we actually supposed to create a kingdom unit to showcase God’s love and God’s power and that’s what I wanted it to be.
I told God I wanted to be at the right place and at the right time and the truth is that God actually worked everything out for me at the right time with the right man.
Q: The both of you are Gospel singers, should we be expecting a collaboration from this union soon?
NIKKI: If we don’t drop a single or an EP, what are we doing here as artists? We have to drop something and it is going to be fire, it is going to be amazing. We are actually working on some new music together, and it is going to be out soon. I am so excited already. We are already in the studio, we no dey waste time
Q: The theme of this year’s women’s day was ‘breaking the bias’, what is your concept of the whole thing, and do you think women have really broken the bias and found their feet in every sector?
NIKKI: I think right now, a lot of women are doing and creating innovative things and we just have to keep breaking the bias in every sector. Personally, I am a recording artist, I am also a humanitarian, I run Angel 4 Life Foundation where I work with people with disabilities, helping children with cancer—I just keep doing things to support and empower people as well even as a female in the industry. I am also a media consultant, an online editor, supporting people’s musical careers and so many other things like that. I am just making sure that I am taking my place and that’s what I always try to tell other women out there, to take their place wherever God has placed them to be of help or support, either in the professional industry, entertainment, health, or any other sector. The truth is that is we are all God’s hands here on earth, like I always say, and wherever God has placed you as a woman, achieve and do all that God has called you to do and keep on breaking the bias. Wherever they say women can’t or have never done that before, step in there and do it, that’s what I am doing too.
Q: What is your advice to those who bring their marital issue to the social media space after a break-up?
NIKKI: For me, a marriage is between two people. It is not between you and your social media family. I feel that at the end of the day, people are actually oversharing on social media. Social Media is supposed to be a place of fun, like a billboard, that’s the way I see social media. So, at the end of the day, what do you want people to see on your billboard, how are you advertising yourself and your business, or whatever it is about your life and family. For us, we started a podcast called ‘Meet the Snatchas podcast’
Q: Tell us about the Podcast?
NIKKI: We actually started it as a channel for us to share our personal truth, at the same time, talk about different topics like relationships, family, marriage, raising children, sex and so many other things that people are going through and are afraid to talk. Our social media is only what we want people to see and hear. It is not as if we don’t have our issues and argument.
SOULSNATCHA: She can argue so much and at the end of the day, you realize she doesn’t even know what she is arguing about (they both laugh). The good thing is that she always comes back to apologize, we always come back to apologize to each other. I’ve come to understand that short people are always like that (they both laugh)
Q: Before the era of social media, people had issues, how did you think they resolved?
SNATCHA: The first thing is for you to resist the urge to “shalaye”. Many people out there have boring, tired and miserable lives, sorry to say, and they want to use your life for entertainment, so don’t let them achieve that with your life. Don’t let them gather and just use your life for entertainment. There is somebody somewhere who wants a reason to say this is why I have not made it in life and all of that. “Misery loves company” so don’t give them the opportunity to do that. There is this Yoruba adage that says “when your yam is done, you don’t bring it out, just cover it while you are eating it”. Don’t wash your dirty linen outside, because people will just mock you and use you to laugh, then move on to the next one and continue like that. What do you even expect to gain when you come out and talk about your family outside—they won’t tell you to sit down and settle the whole issue, they won’t even give you good advice.
NIKKI: A Marriage is between two people and the two people involved should always sort out their issues indoors.
Social Media should be more of a platform to showcase positive stuff about you and your family, business etc
SNATCHA: When we started the “Meet The Snatchas Podcast”, it started first with me trying to get men to be more involved in the raising of their children,
So I just wanted to show a good example of how a Father should be in the lives of his children.
So i started filming myself taking care of my kids, getting them ready for school, teaching them values and all that. So that’s what I feel social media should be for.
And also when it comes to dealing with your comment section on your social media pages, don’t bother trying to exchange words back and forth with people. When I see a troll on my social media page, I just try to explain and if they seem not to heed, I overlook them. As Jay-Z said, If you diss me, you are famous, and if I diss you, I’m reckless. I have more to lose so I just leave you to it.
Q: We have had stories of men who beat their wives—what is your view and advice for men who are domestically violent?
SNATCHA: First of all, we talk a lot about the physical abuse, but there is also the verbal abuse which is a silent killer, and emotional abuse also.
First of all, to the ladies or to the men who have been physically, emotionally, and verbally abused, it starts from the root, from the dating stage.
When dating, don’t look at how he or she is treating you, because he or she is trying to impress you, look out for how your partner treats anybody that he/she thinks is not on the same level with him or her, how your partner reacts or talks to that waitress in a restaurant could be a red flag. Or if you both are having an argument and instead of hitting you, he hits the wall, next time, you might become the wall. These signs are obviously there and people can’t hide them. Always look out them
Also, for women who are in such a relationship, I know your pastor might not want to tell you this, but run!
And for the men who are with toxic women who would hold you and say ‘you will kill me today’ just find a way to walk away, just try to be yourself, even if she hits you, which I believe no man or woman should hit another person—even if they do it, just walk away and sort it out from afar.
Stay where the hand cannot hit you, Stay where the tongue cannot lash you.
NIKKI: It is very wrong for you to even lay your hands on someone you say you love. I really don’t know where it comes from but I think that people who beat their partners have a lot of deep seated problems, maybe unresolved childhood issues and they truly need help. If you are someone that has serious temper /anger issues, get help, see a therapist. At the end of the day, if you are in a marriage where you are being physically abused, please just walk away.
Q: When you both fight, how do you resolve it?
SNATCHA: We have very heated arguments, especially because she won’t back down, I remember telling her that sometimes, I don’t have to win this argument even if I think I am right.
And sometimes I know she’s right and I was wrong. Sometimes I just let it slide and sometimes she does let it slide too. But the law that has always been in place is that the sun cannot set and rise without us settling that issue.
I had that same culture with my late wife as well. Even if it means waking up by 2am and getting the problems solved, we will. Conflict resolution is very key as we also need to know that that it is US against the world. If I go out with my wife and she has issues with someone, even if she’s wrong, I wouldn’t talk her down in public, I will rather wait till we get back home and let her know where she went wrong.
NIKKI: The most important thing I love about us is that we would want to deal with that problem, we will argue until we understand what we are arguing about. And once we clear it and settle that issue that day, it does not come up again.
We can’t go to sleep without resolving our issues, we won’t allow it cos we need to gossip (they both laugh )
Q: Looking at how Covid-19 changed the world—during the Endsars, people died, and the virus is said to have killed so many people, and now the Russian-Ukraine war and other conspiracy theories, what do you really think about the whole thing?
NIKKI: For me, I just want to thank God personally for protecting me, because there are many flights that I took coming to the UK and once I enter the U.K, NHS will send me a trace message and tell me that there was somebody on our flight that actually had covid-19 and I have to isolate, but never for once have I tested positive for covid-19. It is just been the grace of God because, during that lock-down, I will have to be moving in the trains and buses, and it is just the grace of God that kept me even though we lost so many people that we loved so dearly but we just thank God because God kept us through it and he created this union from that whole season.
Q: Your late Dad is a known Broadcaster, tell us about him?
SOULSNATCHA: My dad was fun. He was an exciting Ibadan man.
I remember when I was ten, he had this program which he created called “under 10” with Aunty Henrietta and every Saturday, we would go to Radio Nigeria to record with the young stars like Chichi of Africa, Tosin Jegede.
There was another program called “Long Throat Junction”, a radio drama which he produced amongs others.
He pushed out a lot of artists, from King Sunny Ade to Ebenezer Obey, Majek Fashek, Dizzy K Falola and more. My father was actually my inspiration for going into music.
He was a fun loving man who liked enjoyment. He and my mum had this relationship that was special and great. They both called each other MD, which is a short form of ‘My Dear ’ and for a long time, I thought that was their real names. They had such a wonderful relationship, and I think I got that from my parents. They didn’t treat the guys and girls differently. Everyone has chores and does the same things.
In the music sphere, my Dad really helped to push me there. I remember our first Rooftop Mcs single, “Shock Therapy”, I took it to Rhythm FM and they didn’t really want to play it, until I met with JAJ, and told him I was BabaMiliki’s son and he was excited to meet me and help push the single because my dad had helped him, opened door for him at the start of his career as a radio broadcaster.
Even Uncle Bisi Olatilo honored us at his son’s wedding because of my Dad, letting everyone know that’s my Boss’ son. I just felt special that even though My dad wasn’t really rich cos he was a unionist, he rejected a lot of offers he deemed wrong while fighting for the rights and benefits of his colleagues. But His name opened doors for me, and that’s a great legacy he left behind.
Q: How Frequent is your podcast?
SNATCHAS: “Meet The Snatchas Podcast” runs every other Friday on YouTube. It started as something that we just want to genuinely say our stories, no editing. If you watch it, we just turn on the camera and just talk about our relationship, our stories.
NIKKI: We talk about how we dealt with divorce, dealt with the loss of a spouse, how we came together. We just come up with different topics that we know that people out there are dealing, topics that people and the church are not necessarily talking about. The response has been amazing and we realize that people are actually going through a lot.
And with the podcast, we are counselling and supporting a lot of people. It’s just something that we are doing on YouTube, it’s on all podcast platforms and channels. We also tell people to chip in and let us know what they want us to talk about—relationship, life, how to deal with raising children, stepparenting and all.
Q: What is your idea of step-parenting, because a lot of women have that struggle with children that are not theirs?
NIKKI: It’s amazing that you are actually bringing this up, because we saw a story on Instagram recently, where lady was actually asking for advice because she wants to get married and the fiancé already has a five-year-old child from a late wife and she is upset because the guy is so close to the child, and she feels that the child reminds the fiancé of the late wife. So, she is in competition with the child. And she wants the guy to either go and drop the child with his parents or send the child away for adoption because she is now pregnant with their own child, and she does not want any competition whatsoever.
People were tagging me to the post so I could come and say something about this. My husband came as a package with his four children. We even did an episode on our podcast, talking about dating and marrying a Partner with Kids. The first thing is you have to be someone that loves children, do you even love children in the first place and do you really love the person you are going to be be with, because if you love that person, you will love everything that the person comes with—God is making you a custodian of those children, you are there to impact their lives and God is giving you a chance to be a blessing to them, that’s what step parents should see as the reason why they are in their lives of these children. So you have to see them as your children and of course, there has to be proper understanding and communication between the parents regarding the children.
The partner with kids needs to teach the other how to build a relationship with his /her kids, they need to work together on how to discipline them. Snatcha knows I love the children and he allows me to discipline them in my own way, he does not counter my discipline because that alone can cause issues regarding your involvement in the lives of your partner’s children.
It’s important you work as a team with the children.
Q: Do you think its normal to just settle with your friend after a partner dies?
NIKKI: The truth is that no body can predict life, love and life happens just like that and the truth is that you cannot say that this one was eyeing this one. Life is totally unpredictable and It’s never easy starting again.
Starting a relationship again at 40 wasn’t easy for me, with so many fears of meeting someone new and all. It’s a long process and sometimes people find it easier to end up with a friend they already know, someone that the children already love and were already used to before now.
At the end of it, all you need to close your eye and ears because people will always talk.
SNATCHA: I have had someone tell me that I moved on so quickly even though it’s been 3 years that my late wife passed away and I just told him in response that I haven’t even heard from you since my late wife passed, even when she was sick, I didn’t hear from you, you were not there to help me take care of the four children so I owe you no explanation now on whether or not to move on.
It is not your business, so I resist the urge to shalaye. I am talking to people who have lost a Spouse.
I understood my assignment in her life was to prepare her to meet God and I did my best for her.
She was sick for about 7 years that we were married, I took care of her, I didn’t cheat on her, I served her.
Marriage is worship, I worshipped her and at the end of it, I felt I had done my job.
I wasn’t even searching for any replacement, the children didn’t start seeing different aunties coming to visit me.
The only Auntie they saw was Nikki and when God said she was the one, that was it.
I owe God everything and I just moved forward.